Anthem said:
Thank you for “trying to show me the light” but as I mentioned above let us agree to disagree. Enough discussion on this for me, time to move on to more interesting things like AYP and our collective spiritual paths!
Fair enough! Anyway, as I was saying, what I was writing was for other people too.
Your view seems a lit milder now than it did.
I should say a little maybe about why I went through all that stuff with Anthem.
One of the reasons why I am highly resistant to inadequate (or overly-generalized, or poorly worded) models of depression is because I know the kind of traps they create for depressed people because I was caught in such traps myself.
When people talk about the causes and cures of these illnesses, whereas they may be well-meaning, they have to be very careful what they say if they don’t want to cause potential trouble for depressed people, either directly, or through those who deal with them. A lot can hang on phrasing and wording.
A notion like ‘Depression is a function of depressed thoughts’ is very risky because it will lead people to believe that they can fix depression by merely fixing or eliminating depressed thoughts. But whereas eliminating depressed thoughts may help, it may not at all be enough, or even be the way to approach the problem.
‘Where else does depression come from but within?’ I see as a potential disaster, likely to indicate to a depressed person that they can always come out of depression by some willful change of perspective. And that would be one of the most common and destructive misunderstandings of the nature of depression.
>> To me [ some internal difference in perspective ] is why some are impacted by these things and others are not.
Obviously, this is destructive in its own way, because the disparate impact of stressors may be domonstrably merely biological and have nothing to do with perspective. A person with S.A.D. is not served or treated well by the implication that it is their perspective which is the cause of their illness. The same is certainly true of a woman who suffers genuine post-partum depression. And it may well also be true for most cases of depression occurring in bipolar disorder.
To someone watching, it might look as if I, and maybe Jim too, are merely being sticklers, or being cantankerous or argumentative, picking at phrases or wording. But there is a lot more to it than that. We may be coming into coming into town shooting pistols, but it does not mean we are the bad guys. We are after some gansters in black hats, in the form of what we see as risky popular and easily-reached ideas about depression.
It’s much more a case that I (or we) know that inadequate models, or even inadequate wording, in the domain of depression and its causes and cures, hold serious risks for the sufferers.
So whereas I may look cantankerous and presumptious, it may be more a case of someone who knows, simply pushing back against some risky stuff being said by someone who does not know.
It may indeed be unpleasant to have ones words and phrases picked on and challenged. But to avoid that, I would suggest that people who admit that they do not know much at all about this complex and sometimes grave illness, to simply steer clear of making publicly-accessible and maybe poorly-worded generalizations about it and its etiology and cures.
Hello everyone - Alvin especially! Yes, suffering is part of our human condition, which we all have experienced to greater or lesser degrees. I think I know whereof you speak from very painful events in my life including the death of my mother by firing squad, and later the early death of my daughter from cancer. But the Buddha pointed the way out of suffering, and many other teachers as well. Just recently, regarding loneliness, I ran across this quote:
“The most profound state of innocence is touched within an immaculate sense of aloneness. Once this aloneness arises, freedom blossoms. ‘I’ instantly dissolved as it interfaced with, gazed into, the unknown. Such wonder! Such liberation!”
Many loving voices here have offered good suggestions, to which I would only add that developing awareness of ‘who it is’ that suffers can be very liberating. I have my own personal way of immersing this body in such intense bliss that everything else falls away, but I’ve have posted about this elsewhere in these topics and won’t ‘toot my horn’ here.
With love and much empathy for all who suffer
Ramon
How are you Alvin now? I am late for this posting but …
Now you want to live a bigger life than before which is amazing! That is why you have reached the idea of changing things in your life to make if more fulfilling. Congratulation!
There were times in my life that I have been awfully down and depressed the way I was not able to cry. I would envy whoever had tears. I am so happy that you can express your feeling. When you take stairs the shakiest part is between the steps you are taking. When you are in the plateau every thing is the same and nothing happens there is no problem.
It is amazing how much data have posted for you.
It is hard to understand where you are coming form since I am not in that geographical place. I can share with you my experience from my practices. I was living in an environment that transcendental meditation was illegal – against religion and government could put us on jail. When I was getting to a group practice I was not sure I could make it home. It was very hard I did it as much as it was possible.
As we know “Guru is in you”, the light is within you.
Physical activity any kind changes the biochemical in your body. When I was feeling down/isolated I used to make a group and go mountain climbing, learning different dances, and once I found just for two hours working in a shelter was healing my spirit.
I also found walking a distance for one or two hours was helpful to me too.
Again I do not know what are you capable to do legally, physically, and mentally, listen to your heart/body and try things that would facilitate this transition. Yes supplements by all means would work wonderful.
To attract the people you want you might be able to create those groups yourself.
Putting ads for book reading club (mainly spiritually – Yogani’s book) and volunteering in a youth club.
I truly believe you have massive knowledge in different areas that would be life changing for many other people to learn. You can offer different classes even as pro bona.
Again these are just my suggestions and see how much they fit your life (legally, physically, mentally, environmental,…)
You are one of God’s masterpieces and definitely there is a life mission for you. Just let it happen and trust life. Alvin now you know everybody loves you here!
Love and light
Let me put my views on depression versus meditation aspect.
I especially found doing meditation in emotionally disturbed situations can make it very difficult for that short period of time. But in the long run meditation will do good and make us more effective in dealing with such situations. Especially when you are trying to forget painful memories meditation might appear to bring them back. But I feel this is because we are not following the procedure correctly and trying to restrict the thoughts and thus end up giving them more power.
I also agree with many here that meditation can be very hard to do in emotionally disturbed situations in which cases I dont mind stopping it after 10-15 mins. I feel deep meditation is a regular practice which is making us strong from inside
-Near
To Jim and his Karma,
Do you know the name of the chest opening asana you are describing in this thread? My Iyengar teacher has taught us one that is similar, but I don’t know it’s name. We begin on our backs, raise the pelvis, and place a block under the sacrum. Reach down to the mat near the heels, and pull the mat to move the shoulders toward the feet, pulling the chest open. I feel a strong chest opening in this asana, but I don’t feel the progressive removal of blockages you describe.
I wonder if it is really the same asana.
Let me leave aside the question of “is it an asana?”. Everything’s an asana, there are often different names for the same asana, and it’s a whole sticky wicket. The exercise you’re doing with block at the sacrum is not formally called an asana in Iyengar yoga, but it can be seen as an assisted form of a couple different asanas. None of that’s particularly important unless you’re an academic.
But that’s not the move, no. I’m talking about a block just beneath the bottom edges of the shoulder blades. I was quite clear and specific on that, you may want to re-read. The sacrum block is not deemed a chest-opener. This is. And your Iyengar teacher can definitely assist you with it.
As for “removal of blockage”, I’d suggest to you that that’s not a process you can directly measure or observe in the moment, and you will find yourself distracted, dead-ended, and otherwise detoured if you proceed with that presumption. As you know if you’ve (carefully) read the AYP lessons, Yogani suggests observing one’s experience in everyday life in order to gauge (and self-pace) progress with practices. That’s a gauge with a reasonably stationary background. But while you choose to launch sadhana, and you choose to maintain sadhana, sadhana is not your process; don’t assume yourself to be an objective external observer. To quote an old paper towel commercial, you’re soaking in it.
I did, however, make the point that any negative sensations you feel in these “opening” exercises or poses is just the result of internal blocks. The sensation can be interpreted as “painful”, but that’s not really it. Have faith and relax/melt into the opening!